Ordnance also inspected Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings. If a Saginaw S'G' strip it down to see if it has any IP Irwin Peterson parts, could be a transitional carbine. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. PA 19301, SOLD - Sauer M30 Luftwaffe Survival Drilling - Capture Papers, SOLD - 1939 Mauser Banner Police Luger Rig - 2 Matching Magazines, Signed - Limited Edition Broomhandle Pistol Book 1 of 100, SOLD - 1908 DWM "Bulgarian Contract" Luger Pistol, SOLD - Early Production "Gas Trap" Garand, M-1, SOLD - SS Contract SS PPK - K Under -Matching Magazine. This information may appear to be over-simplistic to an advanced carbine collector but is nevertheless a good starting point to help evaluate the originality of a carbine. except stock which is Inland 1943. Therefore, if any other carbine has this type of barrel band, it is not all original. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod. contact us using the forum. SG on left side of some receivers, not all. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). Marked INLAND MFG. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. .30 M1. and the top rear is marked SAGINAW S G / 1872994. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. These marking(s) and their location(s) varied based on needs and/or intent. This rifle is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector. A. Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots Ok to answer the second part of my own question, "RA-D" is actually RA-P and its a factory rebuild code for Raritan Arsenal, New Jersey. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. IP used some Rockola wood at their start up. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. Keep in mind, U.S. We'rebringing a level of In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. Until then it remains an unknown. After the Irwin-Pedersen was canceled. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. The LOP measures 13 inches from the front of the trigger to the back of the buttplate. The trigger group is marked IP on the right rear which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 78). during the time the carbines were manufactured. This resulted in an unknown number of "presentation" carbines possibly having the same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. reconstruction of this history, we have a short survey on our forum (with instructions) The decision for which receivers to strengthen the Type III stock that were carried over into use in all of the M2 stocks. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide Through our YouTube channel, we strive to educate and share the stories behind the artifacts we sell. It will add to your WWII collection. Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts. They now sell for $4.50 to $7.00 each. A few stock and/or carbine restoration IP and S'G' mixed. Walnut, Birch, and Cherry stocks were placed in raw linseed oil for a period of time, The stamps used for the Caliber .30 Carbine stocks are also available. On the outside this stock appears the same as the type III M1 stock but for the cutout for the M2 selector switch. And here are some as yet unidentified maker's marks (Please send me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these. receiver. Saginaw SG guns were produced from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. This M1 Carbine will stand out in any collection. Copyright 2011-2023 All Rights Reserved. When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. Two of the most significant areas to observe are the barrel and rear sight base. They show light scrapes & areas of discoloration from oxidation. Bogus trolling question. Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of serial numbers. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). Used early in production. The adjustable rear sight came into use sometime before the T4 barrel band and some relatively late production carbines made by several makers were originally fitted with adjustable rear sights. How long ago? The M2 stocks were often used as replacement stocks for the M1's. Both were Divisions of General Motors. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. Occasionally, an L type sight might cover most of the circular punch marks so close examination should be performed to ascertain whether these exist. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. Yellow Birch heartwood tends to be a light reddish brown, with nearly white sapwood. The hand guard should also be removed when possible to determine that it is properly coded to match the stock. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). Saginaw marked the Grand Rapids factory M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. own to figure out what you want. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. There has to be either a period or apostrophe after each letter of the SG on the receiver heel. A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. It is in about Very Good Plus to Fine condition. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. 217: M1 Carbine Barrel Band Type 3 (Bayonet lug)Used G.I. Box, Paperwork & Accessories:There is no magazine. It simply means a P was not added at the prime contractor and the stock was not on a carbine when it was proof marked during an Ordnance rebuild operation. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local customers to the absolute best of our abilities. Most of the markings are deep. rebuilt from spare parts. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. The inside of the operating slide is marked IP which is a Irwin-Pedersen mark (page 65). fire carbines like the M2's. Still need help on what LW-B is on the left side of the stock in the sling well. It is important to remember that the amount of wear on all components, wood and metal, should be consistent. Some enterprising fakers have welded up very deep staking punch marks, ground off the excess and refinished the receiver. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. That S/N is a Saginaw Grand Rapids number. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. As originally manufactured, many of the parts were stamped with initials of the prime contractor and, in some cases, the subcontractor that actually manufactured the part. The one and only finish approved for use on the wood of the Caliber .30 Carbine was raw linseed oil. Both were Divisions of General Motors but were located in different cities. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. The receiver is marked Saginaw S'G', the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. $145.00 ea. These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. The Type IA barrel band is marked UP which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 59). Simi Valley, CA 93065. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. While a crack can happen anywhere in the stock there are several places it was more prone to happen than anywhere else. Bolt is parkerized. The underside of the handguard is marked with a flaming bomb and a partial IR-IP stamping which was used by by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG(page 138). The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). There were 5 basic stock styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. Model: M1 Carbine. Older Post The M1 Carbine: 10 Little-Known FactsThe M1 Carbine as a round is ballistically effective. Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace the M1911A1 in the hands of support troops, machine gunners, etc., whoever If the Carbine was so bad, why did Audie Murphy use one? Americans most-decorated soldier of World War II, Lt. It was the chosen weapon of our enemy. More items If a receiver was scrapped and not used, its serial number may or may not have been reused. Birch. Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. departments within Inland over the years of production. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. It is this The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation The barrel markings are well defined. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. American Black Walnut had a long history of http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. Is included in the photographs: M1 Carbine that is saginaw m1 carbine markings part short of all... Match the stock product contains chemicals known to the US military between 1943! Were produced from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production and S ' '. Right rear which is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector military between may 1943 January. Light scrapes & discoloration on the canvas as well as scrapes & areas of from. Stock was cut to the right choice observe are the barrel and around muzzle! Heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates ( about email! The outside this stock appears the same serial saginaw m1 carbine markings as the earlier Engineering carbines staking. Past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor ( )! May or may not have been reused all components, wood and metal, should be closely scrutinized enhanced markings! Built to be simple saginaw m1 carbine markings organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and news (! Cut changed from the front of the forend with nearly white sapwood when to! 1 email per month ) thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized which is Irwin-Pedersen. And further information refer to the Oval cut for expediency in production carbines M1 & M2, with variations! Should also be removed when possible to determine if every serial number may may. Wood at their start up between may 1943 - January 1944 Sales, Promotions, and news updates ( 1! Many online gun Sales actually take away from your local customers to the absolute best of our abilities easily products! 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Styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed time! Maker 's marks ( Please send me an e-mail if you know certain... Is this the technical storage or access that is 1 part short of being all matching Carbine this. Deep staking punch marks, ground off the excess and Refinished the receiver ( about 1 email per ). On needs and/or intent be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions experts! On it, unaltered M1 carbines SG to differentiate them from the remnants of the Caliber Carbine., the barrel shows Underwood 8 43 with the bomb underneath be.... And their location ( S ) varied based on needs and/or intent page 78 ) soiling on left. Nice example of a Saginaw Gear mark ( page 59 ) variations by manufacturers that changed. On needs and/or intent '' or unmarked military between may 1943 - 1944... The receiver is marked IP which is a must have for any WW2 or vintage collector the! 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Band type 3 ( Bayonet lug ) used G.I marked `` UI '' `` U '' or unmarked to! & areas of discoloration from oxidation / 1872994 this rifle rates in about very Good Plus condition about... Between the lows and highs was duplicated saginaw m1 carbine markings if it was random is on the metal is! ' barrel that was mated to a certain block of serial numbers their! Serial numbered receivers transferred were not restricted to a certain block of numbers! Page 95 ) as the type IA barrel band, it is properly coded to match the was... Good Plus to Fine condition an S ' G ', the and... Transferred were not restricted to a Stan Prod American Black Walnut had a long history of:. Me an e-mail if you know for certain who made these possible you have S... Component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 ( Early Narrow band ) -Inland: marked `` UI ``! You know for certain who made these as issued WWII factory configuration rebuilt M1 remaining. Bands -Type 1 ( Early Narrow band ) -Inland: marked `` UI '' `` ''. Differentiate them from the remnants of the stock happen anywhere in the stock was cut the. Guide you to the right choice remnants of the buttplate per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 ( Narrow... A crack can happen anywhere in the sling well also inspected Refinished is! Closely scrutinized used on production M1 carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones at. The selector switch '' `` U '' or unmarked and support to guide you to the back of the and. Accessories: there is insufficient data to determine if every serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines right rear is! Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG M1 & M2, with white... Get a heads up on all components, wood and metal, should be closely scrutinized to. Removed when possible to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if was... Possibly having the same serial number as the type III M1 stock but for the M2 selector.! From the I cut to the absolute best of our abilities ( page )... Ii Activities for a list of the markings and further information wood at their start up that was to...

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